19 replies to this topic

[deadweight]

Ive heard from a few people that site injections work useing IGF....Is this proven to enhance any muscle group that you decide to inject?

[catadrioptic]

I have heard that more with MGF than IGF personally. But I could be wrong.

[MyTMouse]

i find it very useful for that purpose. but it's not immediate. I always used it prior to a cycle, then i noticed the muscle group that i pinned the igf with would grow faster than the rest of me.

it's not dramatic really, but i used it to bring my bi's and pecs up, because my back and shoulders grew so quickly.

[deadweight]

i find it very useful for that purpose. but it's not immediate. I always used it prior to a cycle, then i noticed the muscle group that i pinned the igf with would grow faster than the rest of me.

it's not dramatic really, but i used it to bring my bi's and pecs up, because my back and shoulders grew so quickly.

from what i heard and read that IGF CAUSES muscular hyperplasia(permanent cell growth....I like the way this sounds .....Im def gonna give this stuff a try sooner then later.....dw

[ajdos]

I used to subscribe to this theory but I think its a lot less than initially believed to be- IGF goes systemic rather quickly- the site may get a bit of supersaturation but its very short lived- in general IGF will cause the hyperplasic effect but it will also promote intestinal growth hence distention even when you are super lean.

[deadweight]

I used to subscribe to this theory but I think its a lot less than initially believed to be- IGF goes systemic rather quickly- the site may get a bit of supersaturation but its very short lived- in general IGF will cause the hyperplasic effect but it will also promote intestinal growth hence distention even when you are super lean.

I kinda find that site injections useing oils cause that same effect (supersaturation but shorted lived)I do find that site injections has helped put more def in any certain muscle i use to treat and more so,it has this super affect of getting massives pumps ....I guess nothing really proven to say it works or not but the effects seem to work.....Pump n pose would actually be the only thing that would cause permanent growth....The only down fall about pump n pose it that is takes away def and leaves the muscle to round.......Thanks for the feed back AJ.......dw

[largeone77]

I have used 4 kits of IGF (scientropin) and I thought It was great. I shot it in my shoulders, lats, bieceps, triceps, and quads. The only place I noticed site growth was in my shoulders, BTW it stings like a bastard going in.

[greenleaf]

i have never seen any proof whatsoever that igf can cause muscle growth nor do i belive that it can

[Thinkbig]

i have never seen any proof whatsoever that igf can cause muscle growth nor do i belive that it can

INTERESTING, I WONDER IF GRUNT CAN OFFER ANY FEEDBACK ON THIS.

I'M NO EXPERT ON IT, NOT HARDLY, BUT I THOUGHT THAT THE MAJORITY OF hGH'S EFFECTS IN HUMANS WAS DUE TO THE LIVER CONVERSION TO IGF-1...


...I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I ALSO WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT GH CAN CAUSE MUSCULAR GROWTH (HYPERPLASIA/HYPERTROPHY), SO I'M INTERESTED IN HOW YOU HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IGF-1 DOESN'T INDUCE MYOFIBRILLAR GROWTH?

ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THE STUDIES DONE ON HOW MUSCLE CELLS PRODUCE LOCAL IGF-1 ENDOGENOUSLY?

IT WOULD SEEM TO BE A FUNCTIONAL PROCESS IN SKELETAL MUSCLE GROWTH.

THAT SAID, I HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE AS I HAVE NEVER DONE ANY OF IT, ONLY READ ABOUT IT.

[rocketw19]

i have never seen any proof whatsoever that igf can cause muscle growth nor do i belive that it can

INTERESTING, I WONDER IF GRUNT CAN OFFER ANY FEEDBACK ON THIS.

I'M NO EXPERT ON IT, NOT HARDLY, BUT I THOUGHT THAT THE MAJORITY OF hGH'S EFFECTS IN HUMANS WAS DUE TO THE LIVER CONVERSION TO IGF-1...


...I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I ALSO WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT GH CAN CAUSE MUSCULAR GROWTH (HYPERPLASIA/HYPERTROPHY), SO I'M INTERESTED IN HOW YOU HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IGF-1 DOESN'T INDUCE MYOFIBRILLAR GROWTH?

ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THE STUDIES DONE ON HOW MUSCLE CELLS PRODUCE LOCAL IGF-1 ENDOGENOUSLY?

IT WOULD SEEM TO BE A FUNCTIONAL PROCESS IN SKELETAL MUSCLE GROWTH.

THAT SAID, I HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE AS I HAVE NEVER DONE ANY OF IT, ONLY READ ABOUT IT.

I think he meant site growth! If so I agree I never noticed any site growth

[Thinkbig]

i have never seen any proof whatsoever that igf can cause muscle growth nor do i belive that it can

INTERESTING, I WONDER IF GRUNT CAN OFFER ANY FEEDBACK ON THIS.

I'M NO EXPERT ON IT, NOT HARDLY, BUT I THOUGHT THAT THE MAJORITY OF hGH'S EFFECTS IN HUMANS WAS DUE TO THE LIVER CONVERSION TO IGF-1...


...I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I ALSO WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT GH CAN CAUSE MUSCULAR GROWTH (HYPERPLASIA/HYPERTROPHY), SO I'M INTERESTED IN HOW YOU HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IGF-1 DOESN'T INDUCE MYOFIBRILLAR GROWTH?

ALSO, WHAT ABOUT THE STUDIES DONE ON HOW MUSCLE CELLS PRODUCE LOCAL IGF-1 ENDOGENOUSLY?

IT WOULD SEEM TO BE A FUNCTIONAL PROCESS IN SKELETAL MUSCLE GROWTH.

THAT SAID, I HAVE NO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE AS I HAVE NEVER DONE ANY OF IT, ONLY READ ABOUT IT.

I think he meant site growth! If so I agree I never noticed any site growth

OH, OK, I MISUNDERSTOOD.

I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE RESIDENT IGF-1 GURU HAS TO SAY REGARDING THE ISSUE IN GENERAL.

[deadweight]

Bump...Im clueless as well.still nothing proven to say it does cause muscle growth..And what is proven is very little......dw

[\SHINE/]

The claim is In the case of IGF1 which does act on muscle tissue it will initiate the growth of new muscle fibers, and subsequently new receptors for testosterone
Well no doubt they both help to increase muscle mass, there are plenty of studies showing this.
Now wether direct injects (IGF) into a muscle will actualy cause direct muscle growth or jus increased protien synth and reduced catabolisim is the question.
This study shows they have been experimenting with direct injects of
IGF-I specifically into muscle and has been proposed as a genetic therapy for muscle disorders.

This is all I have of this study, If anyone has the full text please post up.




Regulation of insulin-like growth factor-I ...
Posted in (HGH) Clinical Research Abstracts on Sat April 26, 2003
Regulation of insulin-like growth factor-I in skeletal muscle and muscle cells.

Growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) are potent regulators of muscle mass. Transgenic mice that over-express these proteins exhibit dramatically enlarged skeletal muscles. In contrast, malnutrition, critical illness, sepsis, and aging are all associated with a dramatic reduction in muscle mass and function. The circulating concentration of IGF-I and the expression of IGF-I in skeletal muscle are also reduced during catabolic states. Consequently, GH has been used clinically to increase lean body mass in patients with muscle wasting. Likewise, delivery of IGF-I specifically into muscle has been proposed as a genetic therapy for muscle disorders. A better understanding of the regulation of IGF-I expression in skeletal muscle and muscle cells is therefore of importance. Yet, our knowledge in this area has been limited by a lack of GH responsive muscle cells. In addition the IGF-I gene spans over 90 kb of genomic DNA and it exhibits a very complex regulatory pattern. This review will summarize our knowledge of the control of muscle mass by GH, IGF-I, anabolic steroids, exercise and other growth enhancing hormones. We will also highlight recent advances in the regulation of IGF-I and signal transducers and activators of transcription (Stats) by GH. A special emphasis will be placed on the interaction of IGF-I and proinflammatory cytokines in skeletal muscle and muscle cells.


Frost RA, Lang CH.
Minerva Endocrinol 2003 Mar;28(1):53-73
Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, College of Medicine, Pennsylvania State University Hershey, PA, USA.
PMID: 12621363 [PubMed - in process]

[\SHINE/]

A study showing gh/IGF definately increasing anabolisim and protein uptake.
( effects on tissue protein.)



Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab (2004) 286: E151-7.

Combined growth hormone/insulin-like growth factor I in addition to glutamine-supplemented

PV Carroll, NC Jackson, DL Russell-Jones, DF (David F) Treacher, PH Sönksen, AM Umpleby

Protein loss leading to reduced lean body mass is recognized to contribute to the high levels of morbidity and mortality seen in critical illness. This prospective, randomized, controlled study compared the effects of conventional parenteral nutrition (TPN), glutamine-supplemented (0.4 g.kg-1.day-1) TPN (TPNGLN), and TPNGLN with combined growth hormone (GH, 0.2 IU.kg-1.day-1) and IGF-I (160 microg.kg-1.day-1) on protein metabolism in critical illness. Nineteen mechanically ventilated subjects [64 +/- 3 yr, body mass index (BMI) 23.8 +/- 1.3, kg/m2] were initially studied in the fasting state (study 1) and subsequently after 3 days of nutritional with/without hormonal support (study 2). All had recently been admitted to the ICU and the majority were postemergency abdominal surgery (APACHE II 17.5 +/- 1.0). Protein metabolism was assessed using a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]leucine. Conventional TPN contained mixed amino acids, Intralipid, and 50% dextrose. TPNGLN, unlike TPN alone, resulted in an increase in plasma glutamine concentration ( approximately 50%, P < 0.05). Both TPN and TPNGLN decreased the rate of protein breakdown (TPN 15%, P < 0.002; TPNGLN 16%, P < 0.05), but during these treatments the patients remained in a net negative protein balance. Combined treatment with TPNGLN + GH/IGF-I increased plasma IGF-I levels (10.3 +/- 0.8 vs. 48.1 +/- 9.1 nmol/l, study 1 vs. study 2, P < 0.05), and in contrast to therapy with nutrition alone, resulted in net protein gain (-0.75 +/- 0.14 vs. 0.33 +/- 0.12 g protein.kg-1.day-1, study 1 vs. study 2, P < 0.05). Therapy with GH/IGF-I + TPNGLN, unlike nutrition alone, resulted in net positive protein balance in a group of critically ill patients.


[Pubmed Record - new window]

[deadweight]

The big picture over all that it does help build muscle mass.I say anything that expands the muscle to grow it will repond and get bigger.I would assume after time site injections will cause size to that muscle...It might be a very slow process but inch by inch it will add size..dw

I wanted to say,very good info from SHINE and TB and the rest of you.....thanks dw