29 replies to this topic

[BLUESTORM]

I think the largest determining factor in the effects or benefits of using IGF is age. Going off of studies, the average "user" is in his 30's. As we all get older, checks and balances do not weigh in the same as just a few years ago. 30ish "users" will have a much much more pronounced effect on muscle mass with an increase in Mechano Growth Factor. This is the age when MGF levels decline significantly. You can hook up to an IV full of IGF, but without MGF there to initiate satellite cell activation you are wasting money.
I've read studies showing that resting levels of MGF are no different in young and older men at rest. But, MGF is not increased in aging muscle after resistance exercise compared to young men. In muscle biopsies, it showed that in young subjects, MGF levels were significantly increased in response to resistance exercise, but there was no significant change in older subjects. Increases in IGF-1 levels were identical in both groups following resistance exercise.
Two other studies show MGF levels in young men increasing by as much as 864 percent in one study and 49 percent in another following resistance exercise, while in both of these studies, in older men, MGF levels did not increase at all.

Goldspink is a pioneer in this field and he has studies showing these results as well.
Studies demonstrate the importance of MGF for muscle growth and maintenance. And age is a huge determining factor in how well these hormones effect muscle growth.

If you are still in your 20's, I say go for it. You can certainly get a good bang for your buck with IGF-1 use alone. Just don't skimp on the protein. At this age, protein is the determining factor in how well IGF-1 will work for you.
IMO, when you are in your 30's+, you will see much better benefits out of MGF and GH.

[\SHINE/]

interesting read bro, thanks.

[Grunt76]

I think the largest determining factor in the effects or benefits of using IGF is age. Going off of studies, the average "user" is in his 30's. As we all get older, checks and balances do not weigh in the same as just a few years ago. 30ish "users" will have a much much more pronounced effect on muscle mass with an increase in Mechano Growth Factor. This is the age when MGF levels decline significantly. You can hook up to an IV full of IGF, but without MGF there to initiate satellite cell activation you are wasting money.
I've read studies showing that resting levels of MGF are no different in young and older men at rest. But, MGF is not increased in aging muscle after resistance exercise compared to young men. In muscle biopsies, it showed that in young subjects, MGF levels were significantly increased in response to resistance exercise, but there was no significant change in older subjects. Increases in IGF-1 levels were identical in both groups following resistance exercise.
Two other studies show MGF levels in young men increasing by as much as 864 percent in one study and 49 percent in another following resistance exercise, while in both of these studies, in older men, MGF levels did not increase at all.

Goldspink is a pioneer in this field and he has studies showing these results as well.
Studies demonstrate the importance of MGF for muscle growth and maintenance. And age is a huge determining factor in how well these hormones effect muscle growth.

If you are still in your 20's, I say go for it. You can certainly get a good bang for your buck with IGF-1 use alone. Just don't skimp on the protein. At this age, protein is the determining factor in how well IGF-1 will work for you.
IMO, when you are in your 30's+, you will see much better benefits out of MGF and GH.

As ever bro, you know your stuff.

It is also important to remember that although GH acts as a precursor to IGF-1, both MGF and IGF-1 are "IGF-1" in this instance. Meaning, they are both varieties of IGF-1 with very different functions, which explains, now that we know more about them, their names of MGF vs IGF.

Interestingly, GH is much more a precursor to MGF in athletes than in sedentary people. Which means that for us, GH is more or less equivalent to MGF moreso than "IGF-1" as we like to call it.

[ThatBro]

Thanks Blue & Grunt this is trunig out to be a great thread

[\SHINE/]

Thanks Blue & Grunt this is trunig out to be a great thread

Absolutely.

[Grunt76]

My previous post explains why there seems to be such synergy between GH & IGF-1 and not between GH & MGF. For us athletes of course. For sedentary people, the contrary would likely be true...

[TexSon]

Don't use it either. I grow just fine on the steak and potatoe hormones I've come to know and love. But I don't compete, either.

[SoCo4Fun]

I've ran one cycle of IGF-1LR3 and liked it...I got crazy pumps while on it...Almost all of my injects were IM in the bis and tris and now that I'm cutting I swear my arms are bigger and shaped different...could it be in my head? yeah...but my arms have always been my trouble spot and I'm much happier with them now...

[Grunt76]

I've ran one cycle of IGF-1LR3 and liked it...I got crazy pumps while on it...Almost all of my injects were IM in the bis and tris and now that I'm cutting I swear my arms are bigger and shaped different...could it be in my head? yeah...but my arms have always been my trouble spot and I'm much happier with them now...

So if IGF-1 isn't a good muscle-building agent, it is at least good therapy for dysmorphia?

[SoCo4Fun]

I've ran one cycle of IGF-1LR3 and liked it...I got crazy pumps while on it...Almost all of my injects were IM in the bis and tris and now that I'm cutting I swear my arms are bigger and shaped different...could it be in my head? yeah...but my arms have always been my trouble spot and I'm much happier with them now...

So if IGF-1 isn't a good muscle-building agent, it is at least good therapy for dysmorphia?

HAHAHAHA...no joke Grunt! BTW you put on some good size on your bulker mang! I saw your pics over at AnabolicMinds...

[\SHINE/]

My previous post explains why there seems to be such synergy between GH & IGF-1 and not between GH & MGF. For us athletes of course. For sedentary people, the contrary would likely be true...

Speakin of

Mol Endocrinol (2004) 18: 1471-85.

Physical and functional interaction of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-I sig

Y Huang, SO Kim, N Yang, J Jiang, SJ (Stuart J) Frank

GH and IGF-I are critical regulators of growth and metabolism. GH interacts with the GH receptor (GHR), a cytokine superfamily receptor, to activate the cytoplasmic tyrosine kinase, Janus kinase 2 (JAK2), and initiate intracellular signaling cascades. IGF-I, produced in part in response to GH, binds to the heterotetrameric IGF-I receptor (IGF-IR), which is an intrinsic tyrosine kinase growth factor receptor that triggers proliferation, antiapoptosis, and other biological actions. Previous in vitro and overexpression studies have suggested that JAKs may interact with IGF-IR and that IGF-I stimulation may activate JAKs. In this study, we explore interactions between GHR-JAK2 and IGF-IR signaling pathway elements utilizing the GH and IGF-I-responsive 3T3-F442A and 3T3-L1 preadipocyte cell lines, which endogenously express both the GHR and IGF-IR. We find that GH induces formation of a complex that includes GHR, JAK2, and IGF-IR in these preadipocytes. The assembly of this complex in intact cells is rapid, GH concentration dependent, and can be prevented by a GH antagonist, G120K. However, it is not inhibited by the kinase inhibitor, staurosporine, which markedly inhibits GHR tyrosine phosphorylation. Moreover, complex formation does not appear dependent on GH-induced activation of the ERK or phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase signaling pathways or on the tyrosine phosphorylation of GHR, JAK2, or IGF-IR. These results suggest that GH-induced formation of the GHR-JAK2-IGF-IR complex is governed instead by GH-dependent conformational change(s) in the GHR and/or JAK2. We further demonstrate that GH and IGF-I can synergize in acute aspects of signaling and that IGF-I enhances GH-induced assembly of conformationally active GHRs. These findings suggest the existence of previously unappreciated relationships between these two hormones.


[Pubmed Record - new window]

[Grunt76]

I've ran one cycle of IGF-1LR3 and liked it...I got crazy pumps while on it...Almost all of my injects were IM in the bis and tris and now that I'm cutting I swear my arms are bigger and shaped different...could it be in my head? yeah...but my arms have always been my trouble spot and I'm much happier with them now...

So if IGF-1 isn't a good muscle-building agent, it is at least good therapy for dysmorphia?

HAHAHAHA...no joke Grunt! BTW you put on some good size on your bulker mang! I saw your pics over at AnabolicMinds...

Thanks bro, the pics are on here too...

And for the record, I feel that IGF-1 is a wonderful adjunct to bodybuilding, providing long-term, permanent gains.

[gogotren]

I ran some igflr3 post cycle during pct and think it helped me maintain my gains and def made me more vascular. I did shots in bi, tri`s, shoulders, and calves I also feel the spots I injected did benefit but I also have not run any more aas since. I`m on hold from any more cycles till we pump a kid out of the misses.

[desmondna]

I have used it twice and the Gropep R3 worked a lot better.