16 replies to this topic

[ajdos]

I think that it has become all too common place these days to see someone who wants to improve their physique by adding more muscle and getting leaner to automatically turn to AAS and their other complementary drugs.
We live in a 'win now' society and with bodybuilding its I want to look like a pro bber yesterday.

Persoanally I think this is getting out of hand. Especially when you look around on the forums and see the people who are talking about their cycles and needing advice on how to make it better.
The almighty AAS cycle is a great thing- and I have experienced first hand the effects of AAS myself, but out of the 18 years I have trained only the last 6 have been with the help of AAS.
I managed to get to a bodyweight of 265 without ever using them, this is not to brag but to simply point out that alot of gains can be made WITHOUT anabolics.
Most people dont take the time to learn their own bodies- let alone proper diet, rest and training.
No they think that AAS are some kind of magic pill to take and they will look like they have superhero, comic book proportions in a matter of weeks.
Take a look at the pictures of the people whom are using anabolics- you see people who look like they barely even train, and eating looks like the last thing they do on a daily basis.
So when you come to the forums and you are new- dont go straight into the AAS section- learn how to get gains with out them.
You will ultimately be grateful you put off using anabolics because once you make a shitload of gains without them you will learn your body, proper nutrition, and training.
Then and only then learn how they are used, learn the different AAS, oral, inj, long acting vs short acting, androgenic vs anabolic. Learn the half lives and all the other info you can pertaining to their use and then think up a simple cycle that consists of Testosterone and maybe one other hormone...maybe.
Dont try to throw a pro level cycle at your body- it will simply be a waste of money and drugs- your results will still be dependent on your diet and training.
Learn also about legal over the counter supplements. Not everything that helps you grow is illegal.
And think about the legal and health ramifications, do you really need to use AAS to get your goals?
If you dont then why take the risks?
Most of the high level athletes are pushing their bodies way past their own genetic limits, and thats saying a lot considering they allready are in the top percentile of genetic freakiness.
Do you think AAS will help you get there? Do you think with them you can achieve that high degree of super enhanced look?
If you simply want to add some muscle and get more defined AAS are not the first answer.
KNOWLEDGE is empowerment in the muscle building game.
And to the vets of the forums I think it is our responsibility to help the newer, less experienced members realize that the path of building a better physique does not start at the doorstep of AAS.
For those whom have been around and this has been your standard of thinking, well, I guess its time to change that.
It is our responsibility to educate, and keep the forums as a source of knowledge not a market place for quick hook ups and irresponsible high school mentalities- we all complain about it but its time to do something about it.

So if you are considering using AAS- take a good long look at your training and nutrition first and ask yourself is this what you really need to do? Can you make the gains with out it, have you tried?
AAS are a powerful supplement but without the knowledge to use them and make gains without them before hand they are as useless as anything.

[scuba]

So true...good post

[TexSon]

Not disagreeing with you at all, AJ - depending on the group of people your post is addressing. But there is a little more to steroids than what you are mentioning. So this is simply another view on the subject.

By no means do I think my opinion is correct for everyone, or anyone, for that matter.....or that anyone should regard it as if it comes from a burning bush. But it is representative of a very large number of people...significant numbers that are too large to ignore.

Why has it got to be all about muscle building only?

Does everyone choose to forget the role a sex hormone plays?

hhhhmmmmmmm

I fall into that overwhelmingly large group of people who simply want to be big. I'm not a cutler wanna be, i dont carry an IFBB card...I just like being muscular - and I am not alone, my no means. I would say, in fact, I belong to the largest category of steriod users there are. SO, if, in the practical world, ownership is given to the largest group of practioners that engage in the activity - I'd say I was right there in the majority.

True, I spend anywhere from 600-700+ hours of my life in the gym a year, but don't consider myself religous about it. And sure - I like hammer strength machines just fine over lifting rusting old truck axles in the sweltering heat of a basement. So sue me.

I do get really tired of that minority (comparitively) thumbing there nose at me simply because I dont risk my life and well being on such caustic components as DNP, SLIN and shit that you need a lawn dart size needle to push - and the doses they consume. Compared with these people, my use of steroids would be considered conservative. It is not me or my kind that will ever give steroids a bad name - in fact, the contrary would be true.

And for all my efforts, and years of toil, sweat and dedication...I have the physique of a 24 year old George Foreman, and that is quite big enough for me. Jay Cutler's pysique is impressive, for sure....but Foreman's looks like it will fuck you up - just because. Not bad for 49 yo. And yeah - steroids was a critical factor in achieving this 12 year old goal. I was 37 when I started - not 27. At 22, body building should be a walk in the park. At 49, it gets hard....damn hard and is only gonna get worse from here on out.

Look at my female counterpart, though. Who would they be? Oh, lessee - just about the majority of women in the would that wants that perfect ass, tits, legs....dont necessarily wanna be a pro and compete - they just want what epitomizes a physically attractive woman. Garantee you if there were steroids that did that for a woman, they'd make up the largest group of users. But what it takes for a female to be the icon of what men find attractive is vastly different than what it takes for a man to be the icon of what women find physically attractive.

But, that's just the physical aspect of it all for me. Lets move on to something even more important....the whole rest of the picture.

Even if steroids did not add one ounce of muscle on me, I would be no less adament about their use. The aggression, the mental clarity, the strength, energy, sexual prowness...all of this plays a major role in both my career and personal life.

Professionally, I spend most of my time in the back stabbing, career climbing, cut throat large corporate environment and the aggression, mental clarity, commanding physical presence - and all the confidence these attributes instill, give me a clear advantage in an excessively competitive occupation.

Sexually - I fuck like Im an 18 year old, and can do so for hours on end. I enjoy sex immensely and my guess is I get more out of it than my non-hormonally enhanced counter part.

Personally, the sense of well being, the strength, stamina and energy make my everyday life so much better than it would be otherwise. The way I feel while on cycle as opposed to when I am off is tremendous.

Guess I coulda been a crack or meth head, alcoholic and even a herion addict - but steroids are my vice. My heros are not Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and the likes. My heros are Patrick Arnold, Bill Roberts, Bill Lewlyn, Peter Van Mol and all the other bio chemical pioneer geniuses that have made my life so much better.

That's right - I am a true advocate for steroid use. Not that I think anadrol should be sold over the counter any time soon, mind you, but I do believe people like myself, who use them reasonably and benefit from them tremendously, should have access to them via medical supervision.

I mean, its not like I'm molesting children, raping retards, selling dope to school kids or anything else. I am not hurting a single solitary soul, including myself. You think I am alone in my convictions do you???? Think again.

Now - give me one single supplement that does all that for me and I'll trash this big box of legally prescribed syringes. Until then...leave me and my steroids alone.


yeah - I got a drug problem

no - I dont want a cure


signed,

a steroid user

[MissKBuff]

Wow definitely a good read! I agree with a lot of that...there are many points of view on the subject...some think only good or bad, but there are more, and these were very well addressed!

[deadweight]

Not disagreeing with you at all, AJ - depending on the group of people your post is addressing. But there is a little more to steroids than what you are mentioning. So this is simply another view on the subject.

By no means do I think my opinion is correct for everyone, or anyone, for that matter.....or that anyone should regard it as if it comes from a burning bush. But it is representative of a very large number of people...significant numbers that are too large to ignore.

Why has it got to be all about muscle building only?

Does everyone choose to forget the role a sex hormone plays?

hhhhmmmmmmm

I fall into that overwhelmingly large group of people who simply want to be big. I'm not a cutler wanna be, i dont carry an IFBB card...I just like being muscular - and I am not alone, my no means. I would say, in fact, I belong to the largest category of steriod users there are. SO, if, in the practical world, ownership is given to the largest group of practioners that engage in the activity - I'd say I was right there in the majority.

True, I spend anywhere from 600-700+ hours of my life in the gym a year, but don't consider myself religous about it. And sure - I like hammer strength machines just fine over lifting rusting old truck axles in the sweltering heat of a basement. So sue me.

I do get really tired of that minority (comparitively) thumbing there nose at me simply because I dont risk my life and well being on such caustic components as DNP, SLIN and shit that you need a lawn dart size needle to push - and the doses they consume. Compared with these people, my use of steroids would be considered conservative. It is not me or my kind that will ever give steroids a bad name - in fact, the contrary would be true.

And for all my efforts, and years of toil, sweat and dedication...I have the physique of a 24 year old George Foreman, and that is quite big enough for me. Jay Cutler's pysique is impressive, for sure....but Foreman's looks like it will fuck you up - just because. Not bad for 49 yo. And yeah - steroids was a critical factor in achieving this 12 year old goal. I was 37 when I started - not 27. At 22, body building should be a walk in the park. At 49, it gets hard....damn hard and is only gonna get worse from here on out.

Look at my female counterpart, though. Who would they be? Oh, lessee - just about the majority of women in the would that wants that perfect ass, tits, legs....dont necessarily wanna be a pro and compete - they just want what epitomizes a physically attractive woman. Garantee you if there were steroids that did that for a woman, they'd make up the largest group of users. But what it takes for a female to be the icon of what men find attractive is vastly different than what it takes for a man to be the icon of what women find physically attractive.

But, that's just the physical aspect of it all for me. Lets move on to something even more important....the whole rest of the picture.

Even if steroids did not add one ounce of muscle on me, I would be no less adament about their use. The aggression, the mental clarity, the strength, energy, sexual prowness...all of this plays a major role in both my career and personal life.

Professionally, I spend most of my time in the back stabbing, career climbing, cut throat large corporate environment and the aggression, mental clarity, commanding physical presence - and all the confidence these attributes instill, give me a clear advantage in an excessively competitive occupation.

Sexually - I fuck like Im an 18 year old, and can do so for hours on end. I enjoy sex immensely and my guess is I get more out of it than my non-hormonally enhanced counter part.

Personally, the sense of well being, the strength, stamina and energy make my everyday life so much better than it would be otherwise. The way I feel while on cycle as opposed to when I am off is tremendous.

Guess I coulda been a crack or meth head, alcoholic and even a herion addict - but steroids are my vice. My heros are not Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and the likes. My heros are Patrick Arnold, Bill Roberts, Bill Lewlyn, Peter Van Mol and all the other bio chemical pioneer geniuses that have made my life so much better.

That's right - I am a true advocate for steroid use. Not that I think anadrol should be sold over the counter any time soon, mind you, but I do believe people like myself, who use them reasonably and benefit from them tremendously, should have access to them via medical supervision.

I mean, its not like I'm molesting children, raping retards, selling dope to school kids or anything else. I am not hurting a single solitary soul, including myself. You think I am alone in my convictions do you???? Think again.

Now - give me one single supplement that does all that for me and I'll trash this big box of legally prescribed syringes. Until then...leave me and my steroids alone.


yeah - I got a drug problem

no - I dont want a cure


signed,

a steroid user

hell bro,you said it all........Thanks for a great point of view.....dw

[deadweight]

i would think the moral of this topic would be aimed for new comers to train atleast 5 to 10 years with the use of steroids...I do beleive people should build a soild foundation natural first before useing roids..But after so long the body will reach its peak and thats were steroids step in to play........dw

sorry let me correct myself....atleast 5 to 10 years WITHOUT the use of steroids...dw

[piotr]

great thread ... i remember the most drastic gains i ever made over a short period of time were in fact NOT on AAS ... but i love the feeling of being on it ... its like some kind of majic antidepressant ... the mental affects of steroids IE on your sense of well being, confidence etc is often overlooked and is in my opinion the key to their addictiveness

piotr

[ajdos]

Not disagreeing with you at all, AJ - depending on the group of people your post is addressing. But there is a little more to steroids than what you are mentioning. So this is simply another view on the subject.

By no means do I think my opinion is correct for everyone, or anyone, for that matter.....or that anyone should regard it as if it comes from a burning bush. But it is representative of a very large number of people...significant numbers that are too large to ignore.

Why has it got to be all about muscle building only?

Does everyone choose to forget the role a sex hormone plays?

hhhhmmmmmmm

I fall into that overwhelmingly large group of people who simply want to be big. I'm not a cutler wanna be, i dont carry an IFBB card...I just like being muscular - and I am not alone, my no means. I would say, in fact, I belong to the largest category of steriod users there are. SO, if, in the practical world, ownership is given to the largest group of practioners that engage in the activity - I'd say I was right there in the majority.

True, I spend anywhere from 600-700+ hours of my life in the gym a year, but don't consider myself religous about it. And sure - I like hammer strength machines just fine over lifting rusting old truck axles in the sweltering heat of a basement. So sue me.

I do get really tired of that minority (comparitively) thumbing there nose at me simply because I dont risk my life and well being on such caustic components as DNP, SLIN and shit that you need a lawn dart size needle to push - and the doses they consume. Compared with these people, my use of steroids would be considered conservative. It is not me or my kind that will ever give steroids a bad name - in fact, the contrary would be true.

And for all my efforts, and years of toil, sweat and dedication...I have the physique of a 24 year old George Foreman, and that is quite big enough for me. Jay Cutler's pysique is impressive, for sure....but Foreman's looks like it will fuck you up - just because. Not bad for 49 yo. And yeah - steroids was a critical factor in achieving this 12 year old goal. I was 37 when I started - not 27. At 22, body building should be a walk in the park. At 49, it gets hard....damn hard and is only gonna get worse from here on out.

Look at my female counterpart, though. Who would they be? Oh, lessee - just about the majority of women in the would that wants that perfect ass, tits, legs....dont necessarily wanna be a pro and compete - they just want what epitomizes a physically attractive woman. Garantee you if there were steroids that did that for a woman, they'd make up the largest group of users. But what it takes for a female to be the icon of what men find attractive is vastly different than what it takes for a man to be the icon of what women find physically attractive.

But, that's just the physical aspect of it all for me. Lets move on to something even more important....the whole rest of the picture.

Even if steroids did not add one ounce of muscle on me, I would be no less adament about their use. The aggression, the mental clarity, the strength, energy, sexual prowness...all of this plays a major role in both my career and personal life.

Professionally, I spend most of my time in the back stabbing, career climbing, cut throat large corporate environment and the aggression, mental clarity, commanding physical presence - and all the confidence these attributes instill, give me a clear advantage in an excessively competitive occupation.

Sexually - I fuck like Im an 18 year old, and can do so for hours on end. I enjoy sex immensely and my guess is I get more out of it than my non-hormonally enhanced counter part.

Personally, the sense of well being, the strength, stamina and energy make my everyday life so much better than it would be otherwise. The way I feel while on cycle as opposed to when I am off is tremendous.

Guess I coulda been a crack or meth head, alcoholic and even a herion addict - but steroids are my vice. My heros are not Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and the likes. My heros are Patrick Arnold, Bill Roberts, Bill Lewlyn, Peter Van Mol and all the other bio chemical pioneer geniuses that have made my life so much better.

That's right - I am a true advocate for steroid use. Not that I think anadrol should be sold over the counter any time soon, mind you, but I do believe people like myself, who use them reasonably and benefit from them tremendously, should have access to them via medical supervision.

I mean, its not like I'm molesting children, raping retards, selling dope to school kids or anything else. I am not hurting a single solitary soul, including myself. You think I am alone in my convictions do you???? Think again.

Now - give me one single supplement that does all that for me and I'll trash this big box of legally prescribed syringes. Until then...leave me and my steroids alone.


yeah - I got a drug problem

no - I dont want a cure


signed,

a steroid user

Tex I like your perspective and I actually thought about that when I was writing this.
What got me thinking about this is all the cycles I see posted up by relative new comers and questions about how to make the cycle more efficient and how come its not giving them the gains they want and then a few weeks later seeing that same person post a picture and they weigh 175 lbs and are actually 19 years old??
At those ages the body is pumping out enough natty hormones to make great gains without aas- but they circumvent that and go straight to AAS when its completely unnesecary and they dont even have the first clue about their body and how to eat,train, sleep properly- its ass backwards.

[Realize]

Excellent discussion.

[Razor D]

texSon i like you , very well said , when im not running heavy i still run 250 a week just for maintaining, and i have a bad back ,when i come off im like a cripple "not exaggerating" so alot of my use is medicinal

[TexSon]

Tex I like your perspective and I actually thought about that when I was writing this.
What got me thinking about this is all the cycles I see posted up by relative new comers and questions about how to make the cycle more efficient and how come its not giving them the gains they want and then a few weeks later seeing that same person post a picture and they weigh 175 lbs and are actually 19 years old??
At those ages the body is pumping out enough natty hormones to make great gains without aas- but they circumvent that and go straight to AAS when its completely unnesecary and they dont even have the first clue about their body and how to eat,train, sleep properly- its ass backwards.

I agree completely, AJ.

Stay on the boards for any length of time and you see it over and over again. And unfortunately, that will never change. Up to a certain age, steroids shouldn't even be a consideration.

I started late so I missed out on the best body building years I could have had and is a regret that haunts me always (if only I...). But, at least I started and it has proved to be the best decision I've ever made. It truly is a way of life.

My first three years was actually a long learning curve on diet and training and I can honestly say I paid my dues. I literally lived for the gym during that period (and really still do). And make no mistake about it, I got in the best shape of my life during that time. The thing that gnawed at me, though, was why some of the same people I saw year after year did so much better than me. Was my diet not good enough, am I not training hard enough? I just didn't understand it. What was I missing? At some point in year four, I made the decision to try steroids and it didn't take long to figure that mystery out. I am not good enough with words to even come close to describing what a revelation my first cycle was. And so began my everlasting love affair with the gym life and AAS's.

Anyway, this explains how my point of view was formed - from a mature, late bloomer that paid his dues first. I have the same opinions and advice as you do for the younger and/or inexperienced audience.

This is indeed a good thread.

[Alpha]

Great Read totally agree !!Even though i do get tempted about AAS from time to time , but in the end i just hold it off , im still pretty new , i been lifting for 4 years and im 22 years old

[VIP 101]

Tex I'm not sure exacly on what you're saying? You like it because of the way it makes you feel? If so HRT might be a good thing for ya. Also, if you just like it because it gives you size as well that's fine too. But, if someone is taking them other then Medical reasons just to be big and they don't have the knowledge of their own body it's a complete joke! Reguardless of why they're taking them..

If people don't know their body first (from rigorous training and diet) and they take steroids, you're a frickin fool! I see it daily on these boards, they start off wanting to know how to train (which is great), but they see everyone else is juicin, so they say screw the Training and Dieting properly, I'll just jump on the juice (look at 99% of the posts, which are nothing but about juice)! Reguardless of age, 99% of these people just jump on the bandwagon and get all bloated among other sides and wonder why they don't gain anything and/or look like shit. Instead of reaching their limits naturally first with a good solid understanding of there body, they think steroids will do all that for them (why waste the time training natural). There is NO SHORT CUT!! You can sit here and debate this all day long, but the end result is just that, no understanding of yourbody (which is through training and diet) = no understanding or success in BBing or any other sport for that matter. You're wasting your time, money and putting your body through the gutter. You go in cold, you're coming out Cold!
It doesn't matter if you're a Powerlifter, Football player ect.. You need to know your body!!! Only then can you SUCCESSFULLY MANIPULATE IT! I personally feel these boards sway people in that direction when at first their intentions are gaining muscle without steroids. There are also alot of success stories about how much muscle they put on using Super 4500 Test E, which tells people that the Test E put the muscle on and not all the sweat training and eating properly. The boards are giving the wrong ideas as to what really works. Steroids are a means to an End, Steroids don't put on muscle:Training and Diet do. Steroids Don't make you lean: Training and Diet do. Steroids are a supplement to help promote your body into getting better results, it gives you that edge once you understand how your own body works. So go ahead and take the 4500 Super Test E without knowing how to train or diet properly (which teaches you about your body), then by all means slap a pic up..

[VIP 101]

By the way Tex that wasn't aimed at you lol..

[TexSon]

Great Read totally agree !!Even though i do get tempted about AAS from time to time , but in the end i just hold it off , im still pretty new , i been lifting for 4 years and im 22 years old

good move

By the way Tex that wasn't aimed at you lol..

lol....no, didn't take it that way at all...and, good post.

also, even if I would have taken it 'that way', wouldn't have mattered. my skin just isn't that thin. as you can imagine, i get fucked with a lot!