27 replies to this topic

[piotr]

i've always trained back once per week, unless you can count the deadlifts i do on leg day which i dont... anyway its always been once per week, good 35-40 set workout, but this past maybe 9 months i've found i'm never sore the next day... or if i am only the tinniest bit... this is roughly what i used to do... but i have been mixing stuff around a bit hoping that will destroy my back more but to no avail:

an example:

chins x 6
deadlift x 6
tbar row x 6
barbell row x 6
pullover x 6
dumbbell row x 6

i'd use a full rep range for each exercise, pyramiding up to 2-3 rep for a couple sets then back down to maybe 8 until moving on to the next exercise... i've been thinking of doing back twice a week maybe and going even heavier, doing more forced reps on one day and then going a bit lighter and stricter on the second day...any suggestions? seriously what the fuck as if i do almost 40 sets, and heavy at that, and feel almost nothing the next day?... i dont have any problem like this with other bodyparts... like chest for example, i do like 12-15 sets and i'm screwed for like 3 days for sure...

thanks in advance

piotr

[MissKBuff]

What about incorporating an overhead press, pull down movement, or bent over rows? I find that each of those tears my back up...

heavier, and forced will get you no where without at least some strictness...form is everything...of course Try lifitng as heavy as you possibly can, while still being able to maintain perfect form, and try doing only one set, until you just can't do any more, and then on the very last rep, do a hold, until you feel like you're going to die...lol...that will shock your body into growth...it sounds like you may be over training with all of the sets and reps...

Anyways, the next week, see if you can't bust out a couple more reps, again and always doing the hold on the last killer one...

[mugzy]

German volume training. Also in my younger days and when I could recover from anything my partners and I would hit a muscle group for 3 days straight to blow through a sticking point.... always works and your sore for at least a week and in some cases two.

[ThatBro]

Go heavy (try negatives if you have hammer strength )... Also reverse flys and rear delt work will help the look of your back dramaticly. Id like to see pics to make sure its your back that needs the work.
Just a thought

[kb91notch347]

What are you doing for chins? Over or under grip? Reps? How wide? Weighted?

I like the idea of hitting back twice a week.

KB

[Streetdawg]

How long have you trained and how long have you been doing this back routine? what are your goals with your training right now? what are your set and rep schemes? how often do you change reps and weight?

sounds complicated in some ways to me. take a look at some of my back workouts posted in here on the off the porch thread. I keep it simple & do 3-4 exercises at most for back. bear in mind I did deadlifts for yrs in the past to build a foundation for back.

you could switch it up every 2-3 wks. try really high reps for a change. that works well for alot of guys. I tend to do 12-24 reps for most back work. but thats what works best for me.

think of the basic movements for back every time you change it up.

shrugs - unless you do them with shoulders.
pulldowns/chins
rows

SD

[Grunt76]

What are you doing for chins? Over or under grip? Reps? How wide? Weighted?

I like the idea of hitting back twice a week.

KB

Back is made up of numerous smaller muscles, so it would make sense that they could be trained more often than, say, quads. Except for erectors, which take a long time to recuperate.

[bambam9193]

Whenever I think I'm not getting results in a particular area I'll reverse the order of what I might normally do and most of the time I'll go a little bit lighter to really get a good burn in.

For back I like to start with a light set and move up in weight but then the forth set go light again and burn it out. I think the main thing as I'm sure you know is to switch it up and not get accustom to one type of workout. If I'm not dripping sweat 2-3 sets in with my back I know I'm not working it hard enough.

[spectrum]

I doubt seriously more volume is going to help you and I'd be surprised if more frequency would do more than give you a very temporary bump.

Are your workouts still progressing ie. are you adding more weight (while maintaining strict form) or reps ?
How long have you been doing this same workout = exercises and order ?

I find that I go stale after 4-6 weeks max on any routine and results start slowing or stop altogether.

A couple of things you could try:

1. Strategic de-conditioning. Its a principle of hst training where you take time completely off (in this case for back) for a week or 2 in order to prime the body/part for new growth.
2. less volume + more intensity. Pick 3-4 movements MAX and do your progressive warmups with ONE set to total failure as strict as possible. Limit any cheating to a rep or 2 following failure with perfect form and throw a super slow negative in on the last rep for good measure. I'd be very surprised if you don't find a lot less sets = a lot more focus, intensity, concentration on the work sets you do. Its a pretty basic fact - the longer you work the less intensely you CAN work.
3. If you're not already doing so pay really close attention to form. I see more people doing back exercises wrong than just about any other bodypart at every gym I've ever been in. Just today I watched 3 dudes taking turns killing themselves with about 20 sets of pulldowns each moving pretty decent weight but I guarantee NOT stimulating any back growth. If your shoulder girdle isnt moving (forward/upward on stretch and back/down on contraction) you're just hammering your bi's, brachialis, forearms etc.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

[cheops]

40 sets?

[ThatBro]

I doubt seriously more volume is going to help you and I'd be surprised if more frequency would do more than give you a very temporary bump.

Are your workouts still progressing ie. are you adding more weight (while maintaining strict form) or reps ?
How long have you been doing this same workout = exercises and order ?

I find that I go stale after 4-6 weeks max on any routine and results start slowing or stop altogether.

A couple of things you could try:

1. Strategic de-conditioning. Its a principle of hst training where you take time completely off (in this case for back) for a week or 2 in order to prime the body/part for new growth.
2. less volume + more intensity. Pick 3-4 movements MAX and do your progressive warmups with ONE set to total failure as strict as possible. Limit any cheating to a rep or 2 following failure with perfect form and throw a super slow negative in on the last rep for good measure. I'd be very surprised if you don't find a lot less sets = a lot more focus, intensity, concentration on the work sets you do. Its a pretty basic fact - the longer you work the less intensely you CAN work.
3. If you're not already doing so pay really close attention to form. I see more people doing back exercises wrong than just about any other bodypart at every gym I've ever been in. Just today I watched 3 dudes taking turns killing themselves with about 20 sets of pulldowns each moving pretty decent weight but I guarantee NOT stimulating any back growth. If your shoulder girdle isnt moving (forward/upward on stretch and back/down on contraction) you're just hammering your bi's, brachialis, forearms etc.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

I like this, kinda reminds me of the Dorian Yates one set to failure method.

[piotr]

thanks immensely for the response... i'll get back to you guys in due time... also i will try MR SHOULDERS routine first and see how i pull up the next day... i will get back in a few days and post some more history aswell...

thanx again

piotr

[beck26]

may be you just need to change it up a bit and try new exercises or different order.

[schultz1]

+1. I think you are overtraining. Rest = progress.

I doubt seriously more volume is going to help you and I'd be surprised if more frequency would do more than give you a very temporary bump.

Are your workouts still progressing ie. are you adding more weight (while maintaining strict form) or reps ?
How long have you been doing this same workout = exercises and order ?

I find that I go stale after 4-6 weeks max on any routine and results start slowing or stop altogether.

A couple of things you could try:

1. Strategic de-conditioning. Its a principle of hst training where you take time completely off (in this case for back) for a week or 2 in order to prime the body/part for new growth.
2. less volume + more intensity. Pick 3-4 movements MAX and do your progressive warmups with ONE set to total failure as strict as possible. Limit any cheating to a rep or 2 following failure with perfect form and throw a super slow negative in on the last rep for good measure. I'd be very surprised if you don't find a lot less sets = a lot more focus, intensity, concentration on the work sets you do. Its a pretty basic fact - the longer you work the less intensely you CAN work.
3. If you're not already doing so pay really close attention to form. I see more people doing back exercises wrong than just about any other bodypart at every gym I've ever been in. Just today I watched 3 dudes taking turns killing themselves with about 20 sets of pulldowns each moving pretty decent weight but I guarantee NOT stimulating any back growth. If your shoulder girdle isnt moving (forward/upward on stretch and back/down on contraction) you're just hammering your bi's, brachialis, forearms etc.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

[piotr]

but how can i be overtraining if i'm not pulling up sore..? but i know i am doing a shitload of volume even the meathead i am can realise that... the poundages have been increasing steadily but slowly... hmm

this is what i did on tuesday and i'm STILL a tiny bit sore today thurs morning! (finally!) but i dont think its too much... this came to about 32 sets... what do you think of this? as you can see i'm doing a complete range of reps and doing straight sets with not a huge amount of forced reps

bent over barbell rows (5) 15, 6, 4, 4, 10
tbar rows (5) 15, 10, 6, 3, 2 (last three sets with a couple forced reps)
wide grip chins (5) 6, 6, 4, 4, 1 (last three sets with a little assistance)
pullovers (5) 15, 10, 5, 5, 5
dumbbell rows (3) 5, 4, 3
machine rows (4) 10, 10, 10, 15 (last set with forced reps 2 get burn)
cable pulldows (4) 10-15 reps each, with forced on last - trying to get burn

piotr