20 replies to this topic

[toltec]

Ok, I am almost done with my 3rd cycle. 1st cycle was just 400mg of Sust 10 weeks, 2nd cycle was d-bol, and 500mg/sustaton, 3rd cycle was 400/mg deca 10wk, 500/mg Test ENAN for 12 weeks.

I have gained from the start roughly 25lb of muscle. I absolutely love being on Test and would like to be on and off of a cycle indefinitely. What I want to know is what are the long term negative effects of being on a Test based cycle for 3/4 of the year for let's say 10-20 years? Is that feasible or reasonable? Does the pros outweigh the cons?

Also, if you are on Test for 3 months, off 1 or 2 months, then back on for 3 months, do you need a PCT?

I am not seeing any real side effects, some mild acne, but not bad. One effect that maybe bad for the wife is that I am ready to fuck all the time and am constantly thinking about it 24/7.

What do any of you recommend is a proper off cycle for me? I really don't want to come off in the first place, but it seems to me like it's a good idea.

I could spend several hours, googling all the information and reading on the forums, but I don't have the time, super busy.

Please anyone with advice, hook me up. I sincerely appreciate, love this board and the bros. Hope everyone is kicking ass and doing well.


T

[GymFreak]

Ok, I am almost done with my 3rd cycle. 1st cycle was just 400mg of Sust 10 weeks, 2nd cycle was d-bol, and 500mg/sustaton, 3rd cycle was 400/mg deca 10wk, 500/mg Test ENAN for 12 weeks.

I have gained from the start roughly 25lb of muscle. I absolutely love being on Test and would like to be on and off of a cycle indefinitely. What I want to know is what are the long term negative effects of being on a Test based cycle for 3/4 of the year for let's say 10-20 years? Is that feasible or reasonable? Does the pros outweigh the cons?

Also, if you are on Test for 3 months, off 1 or 2 months, then back on for 3 months, do you need a PCT?

I am not seeing any real side effects, some mild acne, but not bad. One effect that maybe bad for the wife is that I am ready to fuck all the time and am constantly thinking about it 24/7.

What do any of you recommend is a proper off cycle for me? I really don't want to come off in the first place, but it seems to me like it's a good idea.

I could spend several hours, googling all the information and reading on the forums, but I don't have the time, super busy.


Please anyone with advice, hook me up. I sincerely appreciate, love this board and the bros. Hope everyone is kicking ass and doing well.


T

I always reccomend PCT. And my best advice as to your statement about googling and trying to find the information, is MAKE the time to read, and gather info. As cliche as it sound, kniowledge is power when it comes to AAS and bodybuilding. If you truly want to achieve maximum gains, healthy recovery, and get the best out of using AAS, you will get as much information as you can. Like I said, MAKE the time to read all the information you can possibly get.

GymFreak!

[toltec]

That actually didn't come out right. I knew I'd hear something like that. I should of re-stated myself. I have read a ton and will continue to read a ton on the subject, yet there's so much bullshit and nonsense out there. I was wanting opinions from folks out their doing it and living it.

I knew I should of made that more clear.

[piotr]

You only DONT NEED PCT if you never intend coming off gear...

If you plan on staying on gear, whether your cycles include test or not, for 3/4 of the year for a number of years then you can kiss your HPTA goodbye and will be on HRT for the rest of your life once you eventually decide to stop juicing... For some that is a small price to pay but unless you plan to be a professional BB'er or are a die-hard powerlifter then you'd be nuts to go down that path IMO...

You say you are not seeing any bad side-affects... I believe you, apart from when I use tren I don't get any side's whatsoever... EXCEPT my HPTA switches off and my balls start to shrink... That's the most significant side affect of heavy AAS use IMO, and while reversible in a sense with robust PCT, when AAS are used (perhaps abused) over long periods your HPTA becomes more and more INELASTIC and over time your body will lose its ability to respond to PCT protocols and eventually to produce endogenous gonadotropins...

As mentioned in the post above please do some more research for your own sake...

PIOTR

[GymFreak]

As mentioned in the post above please do some more research for your own sake...

PIOTR
[/quote]



Amen brotha! Glad I am not alone here in saying this.

[toltec]

No shit. I GET IT ABOUT THE RESEARCH. Have you guys tried finding good sound information on AAS, it's not easy, sifting through the hundreds of thousands of bullshit pages, and moronic postings on forums. I have done lots of reading and research and wasted a lot of time attempting to find any sort of real scientific evidence out there. That is why I am attempting to get some real advice from those that are out there doing it.

I appreciate the posts that actually give me good information and not selective judgments of the self-righteous.




THIS HAS BEEN EDITED BY ME, AND I AM ONLY ADDING THIS PART TO THE POST: The above post I made was moronic and done in complete bad taste as those reading and posting were only wanting to help me. I got frustrated and spouted off a bunch of shit, sometimes we do that without thinking, sorry for the post, I will think more before I post such nonsense again.

[GymFreak]

No shit. I GET IT ABOUT THE RESEARCH. Have you guys tried finding good sound information on AAS, it's not easy, sifting through the hundreds of thousands of bullshit pages, and moronic postings on forums. I have done lots of reading and research and wasted a lot of time attempting to find any sort of real scientific evidence out there. That is why I am attempting to get some real advice from those that are out there doing it.

I appreciate the posts that actually give me good information and not selective judgments of the self-righteous.

Bro remarks like that will not get you very far. We are here trying to help you out my friend. There is plenty of sound information on this board alone to get you off on the right foot. You can not expect to have people just tell you what you are supposed to with having no background information to base answers off of. Common courtesy goes along way in my book, and I am sure I speak for 99.9% of the people on this board. That's my .02

I am done with this thread good luck on your RESEARCH.

[toltec]

Gymfreak,

Please see the extra notes I posted to my last post. I appologize as my last post was done out of frustration and without thinking, without class. I did not mean any sort of disrespect. It's just hard to get good solid information on the Internet without wasting a ton of time. I have a lot to learn and eager to do so and do not wish to alienate those on the board with lots of experience and knowledge.

Thanks for calling me out, won't happen again.

[GymFreak]

Gymfreak,

Please see the extra notes I posted to my last post. I appologize as my last post was done out of frustration and without thinking, without class. I did not mean any sort of disrespect. It's just hard to get good solid information on the Internet without wasting a ton of time. I have a lot to learn and eager to do so and do not wish to alienate those on the board with lots of experience and knowledge.

Thanks for calling me out, won't happen again.

Bro no harm done my friend! I am just trying to look out for you. I know how it is to be hungry for info and not want to wait. Its completely understandable. Only reason I said something is there are alot of Old School Salty Vets on this board and sometimes things can come off as being arrogant without meaning. I hope you enjoy the board bro, and keep me updated with your training results!

[toltec]

Yep, I agree completely, and should of known better, just woke up in a foul mood for just a short while, I am over it, haha. I hate when I talk out of my ass and know I am doing it.

I'll keep ya updated. I absolutely love training hard as hell and attempting to figure all of this out, but yes I often subscribe to be quite hungry for info and wanting everything now, now.

Thanks for your posts. I will be creating an X-training program here soon, any suggestions where I could love for a good program?

[piotr]

Here's where you can start your research:

Do some reading of the role of the hypothalamus-Pituitary axis in the regulation of gonadotropins. Specifically look at the negative feedback mechanism by which endogenous gonadotropin (testosterone) production is regulated and the way in which exogenous androgens (gear) affect this. Also look into the way estrogen has an important role in the inhibition of the feedback loop. Find the literature that shows the effectiveness of selective estrogen re-uptake modulators (clomid, nolva) in reversing premature andropause. Read my post on this board where I put up SWALE'S HCG PROTOCOL... Also, in light of your inkling to stay on gear for long long periods of time look up the effect of longterm steroid abuse on fertility, because long term abuse has been documented to make you infertile and it is often extremely difficult to reverse... These are the fundamental basics you need to understand IMO before you embark on any serious AAS use...

Mate if you simply type in "andropause clomiphene" or "fertility steroid abuse bodybuilder" you will be able to find a number of scholarly journal articles

PIOTR

[toltec]

piotr, as always thanks, appreciate your info. I will check it out. I am not worried about fertility anymore. I've have my family and will be getting a vasectomy within the next year or two anyway.

What I've come across says the same thing, no real long-term studies have been done. I would love to find some good real scientific reviews.

Also, what are your thoughts on getting a family doctor involved? Would that be a waste of time?

What other real long term side effects of running Test based cycles, Sustaton, or Test ENAN for let's say 3/4ths of the year into my mid 40's or 50's as I am 33 right now.

I love the feelings of being on Test, not only for body building, but for my mental state, my libido, and overall well-being. I am very health conscious and want to live and look good for a long, long time.

Basically I want to look great naked, travel, and fuck well into my 70's!

[piotr]

Hahaha the feeling of being on is great, I know what you mean bro... There are really no longterm studies done... you are right... To be honest in my estimation the two biggest longterm problems is

1. fertility
2. fucked lipid profile - IE very low good cholesterols

Number 1 is not a problem for you, and number 2 is generally a problem only with alkylated steroids, specifically orals. They all produce that effect to some extent, some such as stanozolol more than others

I guess I would advise you that the biggest problem with being on almost all the time is that it is almost intollerable to come off... You will feel like shit mentally and physically, you will lose a lot of size and strength rather quickly... Coming off long cycles is terrible for many... If you plan on being on for 3/4 of the year you may as well be on year round... I don't think there are any studies that show any deleterious effects of longterm use apart from fertility and cholesterol... Heart failure when noted is more to do with being massively "overweight" rather than the gear itself, unless cholesterol is a factor...

I dunno bro...


PIOTR

[piotr]

I think the best people to comment would be those of us on VIP who do stay on gear pretty much all year round, one would assume they would have put some thought into the longterm ramifications...

anyone...?

PIOTR

[ThatBro]

Wow this thread went down in a hurry.

To answer your question about " if you are on Test for 3 months, off 1 or 2 months, then back on for 3 months, do you need a PCT?"

No you will waste your money and it will do more harm than good. Playing the yo yo game with your nads is not the way to recover. I had this proven to me by my urologist with blood work and lots of money and time wasted.


There are several good books to reference, and from the hard data you can make educated choices.

I think what these guys are tryn to tell you is never take someones advice as we are all different responders due to our unique biochem.

For just plain data about the different AAS try Anabolics 2009. Once you have a sound understanding of half lifes, receptor availability and the synergy of the AAS based on what I mentioned before you'll answer your own questions. You also need to study the harshness of each drug and the organs they impact so you can supplement with other meds to counter any sides as well as decide how long to stay on and what to taake next to maximise effectiveness. For example the anabolic / andorgenic "swim" technique.

Knowing the sides and at what typical dosages will help you avoid them and know what compounds to take to remedy the situation if it call for it.

I know myself when asked things like this and there is way to much to explain to do you any good and if you want to be elite you need this basic background info so make an educated conversation.

Best of luck to you brother I know I have been where you are and I'm glad that was a very long time ago. LOL

P.S. Ive been a year rounder for years